Stem Cells, Abortions- I'm Opening a Can of Worms Here Folks
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2009
by Gregory Akerman
Silver Discount Properties, LLC
Ok, hello everybody. This is going to be a very casual article; These topics are very controversial and I don't want to upset anybody. I'm not even going to go research around, I'm going to write general things I know about, and I want many comments. I want alot of comments and debate going on because of this article. For those of you who know me, I am not afraid of writing on the controversial side of things.
California had a Proposition in the last few years to fund California with 9 billion dollars for stem cell research, so atleast California is headed in the right direction.
Now, here is the debate. To get stem cells, well one of the ways, is to get them from a fetus from a fertile clinic. Here is what baffles me the most. These fetuses die after you take stem cells from them, but either way these fetuses are going to be thrown away. Either way, these fetuses will die. Why not collect stem cells from these fetuses then? They will be thrown away anyways! Please, somebody, let me know why it offends people to get stem cells this way!
Ok, onto abortion. First, I am pro-choice. When I was younger, I didn't understand the full debate about this, but now I do. The whole thing about abortion leads to one question; When does a fetuse become considered a human and thus gets the rights we all enjoy in this country? That is a very hard question to answer. Again, I am pro-choice. When a single sperm enters the egg of the woman, it becomes a Zycote. Is a zycote a human? I do not think so. However, 6 months down the line, the woman's got a baby in her stomach. That baby DOES deserve the rights we all have.
So when does the fetus get the rights we all have. When does abortion become murder? After 6 months, I'd say it's murder. But within like 2 months, I'd say it's not murder. It's abortion.
Maybe when the heart starts beating? I really don't know the answer to this question. It's very ethical.
I do know one thing. If the condom breaks, and she becomes pregnant, I aint waiting months. I'm going to the Abortion Clinic ASAP.
This article is for the readers, not for me. The interested stuff will be the comments and responses.
Let them start coming!
Also, heres a plug. If your intersted in land investment, please go to Silver Discount Properties.com. If you own land and want to list it for free, please go to DiscountLandForSale.com. Thanks!
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Top-level comments on this article: (10 total)Hi Gregory, in order for something to grow it has to be alive. Just because it doesn't look like a baby, doesn't mean it's not a baby just so you know, you can hear a baby's heart beart when he or she is 10-12 weeks old, when it is the size of a peanut. One of the beauties of technology is that you can see it by sonogram. why are "right's and issue as if "right"s determine murder or not. If you stop a beating heart, it is called murder. Unless the heart stops beating by natural causes."in order for something to grow it has to be alive".Well, not quite true. Crystals grow, and they aren't alive."Just because it doesn't look like a baby, doesn't mean it's not a baby justso you know"True. But equally, just because it does look like a baby doesn't mean it is one."If you stop a beating heart, it is called murder. Unless the heart stops beating by natural causes"A heart is just a pump. The brain, and more specifically the mind, is of more relevance when determining the rights we should afford.If something is incapable of suffering, is it necessarily wrong to kill it? I'd say no.How do you know the baby doesn't feel pain when its tissue is being ripped apart?I should have made it clear when I talked about things growing I was talking about people.Just because the baby is inside the womb, does not mean it cannot feel pain.If a person is not ready to have a baby, maybe they should keep their legs closed.Why should the baby pay the price for the "broken" condomn. It boils done to selfishness."How do you know the baby doesn't feel pain when its tissue is being ripped apart?"
Baby? You mean foetus or zygote?
These don't have sufficiently developed brains / nervous systems to suffer (responding to pain isn't quite the same as suffering, which requires conscious awareness of pain)"If a person is not ready to have a baby, maybe they should keep their legs closed. "
Ideally, yes. In reality, that doesn't always happen. It isn't fair to punish not only the person but the baby too (being raised by an incapable, unwilling parent) for a moment of weakness."Why should the baby pay the price for the "broken" condomn."
It shouldn't have to. If it the foetus is aborted before it becomes a baby, it doesn't have to pay the price, and neither does society.
I just put this up a few hours ago. I want more comments. I want this to be an article, and a big discussion of the issues. Your the first one to responde. I'll wait til more comments come on til I responde to the issues. All I can ask of you is if the article is good or not?Yes the article is good, and raises some important issues.With regard to stem cells, young children and adults (including parents) have died, horribly, as a result of the restrictions that were placed on stem cell research.Families have been torn apart - parents have had to watch their children die, and children have been left orphans.I really don't see how anyone can place the lives of foetuses above the lives of developed children and parents and claim the moral high-ground (even without considering the fact that the foetuses involved are going to be killed anyway!).Helllo Ben,In regards to this:With regard to stem cells, young children and adults (including parents) have died, horribly, as a result of the restrictions that were placed on stem cell research.Families have been torn apart - parents have had to watch their children die, and children have been left orphans.I really don't see how anyone can place the lives of foetuses above the lives of developed children and parents and claim the moral high-ground (even without considering the fact that the foetuses involved are going to be killed anyway!)I JUST CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE ON THESE POINTS. Your comments above are the gist of my article and how I feel about the issue.a good article in that you make people think, but it is hard to take it serious with so many mistakes.
I woke up and found myself somewhat upset that this article didn't make the front page. Oh well, it happens. I hope there will be comments left so that a real good discussion can be created!Even if its not on the front page, I reckon this article has a good chance of making the Hot Comments :)"I do know one thing. If the condom breaks, and she becomes pregnant, I aint waiting months. I'm going to the Abortion Clinic ASAP"Just one suggestion to make here - you'll actually be better off getting her to go, they won't be able to do much with you :)Great article though, and I hope it raises some thought and discussion!"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
- Exodus 21:22-25
I do not like the idea of abortion. But as a science minded person I am in favour of stem cell research.What do you think about the morning after pill?
congrats, you are now on page oneThank you!I don't think I am anymore, but I see many comments in this article. Talk people, talk!
Gregory, just some fuel for thought. Now if one has no religious beliefs lets see if we can use science? Cells grow, science. What is stem cell, growth. Now if we throw in religious belief, that is for believers, we really have a problem. Rhetorically, how can you say you believe but don't believe God? God is the Word so if you don't believe His Word you don't believe in Him, fact. Now here is some more controversy, if your a Catholic and you support, approve, accept, tolerate or ignore abortion or any part thereof you are, get this, automatically excommunicated according to that denominations doctrines, beliefs. No Bishop, Cardinal, Pope or priest has to impose it, you are, automatically, fact. Now i bet many catholics will contest that statement so go check it out. Yes and it can only be foregiven by a Bishop or higher, no mere priest. Now you should really get a tremendous response to this. Just information for the discussion, Best wishes.Robert, while I respect your right to your own opinions, I see your response as seriously flawed. Let's go part by part.Now if one has no religious beliefs lets see if we can use science?Ok, so we are talking science here, not religion.Cells grow, science. What is stem cell, growth.Cells don't always grow. In the case of a pregnancy, they multiple. As for stem cells, they can grow into any part. That's why they are soooooooo potential usefull...you can fix spinal cords if enough research is done!Now if we throw in religious belief, that is for believers, we really have a problem.What is the problem? Cells grow, and stem cells grow, thats all you said. Whats the problem?Rhetorically, how can you say you believe but don't believe God? God is the Word so if you don't believe His Word you don't believe in Him, fact.My position is agnostic theism. Agnostiic mean's "without knowledge" and a normal agnostic makes no claims whether there is a God or Higher Power out there; There is NO evidence saying there is or isn't a God or Higher power, that is fact. Agnostic Theism is slightly different; I lean towards there being a higher power but make absolutely no claims as to what it is: It can be the big dude with a white beard that everybody calls God; humans where started by Aliens and they are observing us, reincarnation, ANYTHING YOU CAN THINK OF I think is possible and might be that higher power. There is no evidence either way. And the Bible is not evidence.Now here is some more controversy, if your a Catholic and you support, approve, accept, tolerate or ignore abortion or any part thereof you are, get this, automatically excommunicated according to that denominations doctrines, beliefs.Yea, this is the same church that took who knows how long to realize we revolve around the Sun. The same church that took years upon years to agree with the scientific community that the Earth is a sphere and not flat. And it's the same church that preaches complete absinence, thus not educating tennagers about sex and as a side effect is a reason for STD's and pregnancies. It's the same church that believes, even through most pro-lifers don't believe in this, that its mandatory that if a woman gets raped and pregnant she still must carry the baby to term.What is the difference between Santa Claus, God, or the tooth fairy? Really>Gregory, confirmation for me. You do stir the pot. Thanks and best wishes.Robert,You need to read the relevant sections of the Second Edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1997), because you are wrong. According to the Catechism (#2271-2275), you can only be excommunicated latae sententiae if you procure a completed abrtion. Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense, which the Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication. Thought, approval, support of a woman's right to choose, or apathy toward abortion WILL NOT get you excommunicated unless you take direct action. I have provided the reference numbers, please feel free to go check them yourselfBefore you start acting like an authority and referring to "facts", please be sure that you have them right....
I recall hearing a newscast recently, where it was found that stem cells can now be grown on adults. I'm not sure of the details, but if this is the case, then I think this is the better way to go.
From the time one cell becomes two the end result will be a human. So, in my opinion, it is ALWAYS murder. FYI, it's Zygote.Let's put a woman's egg in a lab glass tube and some sperm in the other. Are we required to mix it know it will become a zycote?
I know that most Christians would be against Stem Cell research and say that we are 'playing God' again. But I (and I try to be a good Christian) feel that God gave us brains to use to help ourselves (God helps those who help themselves) and I think that this research is necessary to find the cures that are so desparately needed by so many people. Sometimes it is just really hard to find that very fine line between right and wrong.Have a good day, Gregory.SandraSandra, Actually it was Benjamin Franklin who said that about god helping those who help themselves, but I agree with you. I am a Catholic who believes in abortion (I know that according to Robert I should be excommunicated immediately) and also believes in being a good person, even if that is not the same as being a "good" Catholic.I believe that every child deserves to be wanted and that adoption is not always a viable option in every case. A baby born with defects, to a drug addict mother, or to a minority is not going to be lovingly scooped up and adopted. That child will go through institutions and the foster care systems, often without good result. While the unborn child who was aborted did not "ask" to be "murdered", did that unwanted unborn child "ask" to be abused, mistreated, or unloved? I do not believe that a fetus under 10 weeks old, who does not even have a heart or brain, is a "person" with full rights. Even if I did, I also believe that quality of life is as important as quantity of life. A parent has the responsibility to provide teh best quality of life to their child as they can, and if a woman knows from the start that her child will not recieve that because she does not have the ability to provide it and no one else will willingly do it, then it is up to her to make the hard choice. And believe me, it is a hard choice...God did not give us the ability to make the medical advances necessary to conduct stem cell research or to do early term abortion if it was not part of His purpose. Could it be that a life that was not meant to be existed to give life and health to another? Could it be that, like organ donation, the loss of a life is balanced by the gift of life to another? Abortion may be an act of man, but does that mean that it does not correspond with the wish of the Divine?No Gregory not according to Robert, the church. You evidently do not have it all.Robert,You need to read the relevant sections of the Second Edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1997), because you are wrong. According to the Catechism (#2271-2275), you can only be excommunicated latae sententiae if you procure a completed abrtion. Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense, which the Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication. Thought, approval, support of a woman's right to choose, or apathy toward abortion WILL NOT get you excommunicated unless you take direct action. I have provided the reference numbers, please feel free to go check them yourselfBefore you start acting like an authority and referring to "facts", please be sure that you have them right....I noticed that you did not respond to this exact same comment I made earlier in this comments section, even though I made it at the same time as the one you did choose to respond to. Is it because you don't like to admit to facts that show that you are not correct in what you are saying and implying?Thank you for the comment, Sandra.']Good to know there are people whom are faithful in their religion butwhen it comes to stem cells your down. Thats good :-)
Well Gregory, You asked for it, you got it!Bush didn't stop stem cell research, he just didn't want the government to pay for it. Do I want to use fetuses? No, how about the umbilical blood?By the way, you think 6 months in the womb starts the life? Try 4-1/2 months when that baby kicks. Or, how about looking at a fetus at 2 months. It's got everything then too! Just type in 2-month old fetus on Google images and see for yourself.As far as abortion, I don't want the government paying for that either, which President Obama has or will make into law because it means I'm paying for it. Why not make the 'parents' pay for it? My goodness, what a concept. If it hurts that much financially, maybe the 'parents' will be more careful the next time.Good luck on this -- I think you're in for some interesting responses.Nancywell said, Nancy!Hello Nancy. While I thank you for your comments, I respectfully disagree and will digest it point by point.Bush didn't stop stem cell research, he just didn't want the government to pay for it. Do I want to use fetuses? No, how about the umbilical blood?Bush stopped federally funding for all stem cell lines created after a certain date; basically making it so the federal government didn't pay for stem cell research. The fetuses I am referring to are those that, I think, are in a in vitro clinic and the fetus will be THROWN AWAY EITHER WAY. What is the harm is harvesting some stem cells before throwing it away? And about Bush, well, look, there is federal funding for HIV and AIDS, alzheimers, diabiates, cancer, the list goes on and on. The government gives grants to pharmicutical companies and they "try to find cures" *yet seem to only find bandaides that have to be consistantly replaced, God forbid a cure comes out and one stiops taking pills daily.* Anyways, stem cell research has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much potential that if their is federal funding for medical research stem cells should be at the top..By the way, you think 6 months in the womb starts the life? Try 4-1/2 months when that baby kicks. Or, how about looking at a fetus at 2 months. It's got everything then too! Just type in 2-month old fetus on Google images and see for yourself.I'm going to avoid the ethical debate in your point here (I'd want to do more research and when life is considered life. How about I just take the Supreme Court's Roe vs. Wade stance. The justices decided it's a woman's body, she has the right to choose. Look, let's face reality, peoploe like sex without condoms and a women always has problems with her contraceptives. If a couple finds out they are having a child, and the WOMAN knows she cannot care for it, abortion is a great tool. The fetus isn't even consious and doesn't know what is going on..As far as abortion, I don't want the government paying for that either, which President Obama has or will make into law because it means I'm paying for it. Why not make the 'parents' pay for it? My goodness, what a concept. If it hurts that much financially, maybe the 'parents' will be more careful the next time.This is simple. If the 'parents' cannot prove financial stability, the government should pay for it.I cannot wait to responde to everybody else! :-)Gregory,This is simple. If the 'parents' cannot prove financial stability, the government should pay for it.You think that going to your MVA to renew your license or your registration is fun?Imagine if the government steps in and handles everything for us. I guarantee that once our government starts 'managing' our lives to that degree, it will make the experiences most of us have at our motor vehicle agency look like a walk in the park! The mismanagement of governmental affairs in my state is a nightmare. I can't even get them to respond to a Registered Letter! And I've been waiting 6 years for an answer!And, you want the government paying for two teenagers' mistake? Why? Right now, the government is heading down an incredibly slippery slope. If you think that, with all the President is planning on doing, our taxes are not going to be raised, then you, my friend, you are in LaLa land. Why, on top of all of this, should I have to pay for abortions? Right now, my property taxes are astronomical. Why? Because I am paying for the welfare of the wonderful Camden, NJ! Yes, I'm paying so that many of those in that city can have a home and eat. I really don't think I should have to pay for them to abort as well! It makes me mad every time I shell out more than $700 a month -- and that's on top of my mortgage!I know this may be a foreign concept to you, but I was raised that if I made a mistake, I had to pay for it (not mommy or daddy). Therefore, if two people make a mistake, they pay for it. No money? Well, they either have the child and put it up for adoption or they go get a job and work to pay for the abortion. Sounds pretty simple to me.There is a saying that you might be too young to have heard -- once burned, twice cautious. Maybe if those who are burned the first time and have to pay for it, they will be more careful the next time.NancyOh Gregory, I just had to add something else.The way to get an article on the 'front page' is to write a good article that people enjoy reading. I write for SearchWarp because I love writing. If it makes it to the front page, great. If not, so be it. I write for lots of websites for business. For SW, I write for fun.My advice: stop asking for people to respond, write well enough so that people want to respond.NancyYea your right. Sometimes I just want to stir that pot you know. But your 100% right and thats what I'm trying to do :-)"Why, on top of all of this, should I have to pay for abortions? Right now, my property taxes are astronomical. Why? Because I am paying for the welfare of the wonderful Camden, NJ! Yes, I'm paying so that many of those in that city can have a home and eat. I really don't think I should have to pay for them to abort as well!"It is cheaper to pay for the abortion than to pay the costs of NOT aborting.Increases in numbers of unwanted children directly lead to increased societal problems, especially if the unwilling parents are unable or unwilling to provide adequately for the children.Paying the relatively tiny cost of providing free abortions to those who cannot afford it allows great savings to be made through many areas - reduced crime, reduced numbers of people claiming benefits etc.If a couple have an unwanted pregnancy it will not be just them that has to pay the price if it continues to produce a child - society pays it too, and that includes every single tax payer. It isn't just a financial price either - the increase in crime means you are more likely to be robbed or injured / killed.Pragmatically, it is far better to use the taxpayer money (or money voluntarily given to social improvement schemes) to pay for the abortions than to use vastly more of it to pay for the consequences of increased numbers of unwanted children born into poverty and often a loveless upbringing.
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