Page 2 of comments on Lets Play Normal People Vs. Bible Thumper
by Gregory Akerman
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Hi Gregory, I just love you my dear friend. I only have one comment/question. Are you an agnostic thiest thumper? Gregory, you are calling people who believe in the Bible abnormal and wierd and you are saying you are correct. So if there is no hell, and its just a mean word, which is worse, calling people wierd, abnormal or By your own definition you are a thumper too. So I guess anyone who has any kind of belief and chooses to share it, by your definition is a thumper. Are you not in fact "preaching" agnostic athiesm?Okay, so maybe I had more than one think to say :-) God bless you dear friend.Teresa, it is wondering speaking with you everytime. I love it how we can have our own opinions, and conversate/debate them, yet do it in a friendly fashion. I love that we can do this :-)Now in response:By Bible Thumper I mean people who like, I mean for example there is the Santa Monica Pier where I live; kind of like an on going carnival of sorts; on one Stage was a guy who was a Young Earth Creationist and below him was a microphone setup for anybody willing to argue with him (where you said to the right was a pole with a sign "Atheists go here."Long story short, I won the debate judging by audience presponse. But my point is he was trying to scare people saying if you do not believe you go to hell.A bible thumper, in my opinion, is the following: A person who has a literal interpretation of the Bible, AND goes around preaching his believes AND putting people down if they do not agree AND telling them they will go to hell if they do not believe.I do not preach anything. I just wrote an article. You don't preach either, you just write articles. You inject God into alot of articles, but you do not tell people that they will go to hell if they don't believe. So I do not view you as a Bible Thumper, and I am not an Agnostic Theist thumper.Hope that made sense.Hi Gregory, you live close to my hometown! We used to hang out on Santa Monica pier all the time! (Do they still have the carrousel?) During the break-dancing days! You put it mildly when you say a carnival of sorts. I have to agree, there are all kinds interesting people that hang there. I can totally see where you are coming from. I have seen those kinds of people-bible thumpers in respect to your definition. I have big problems with these types of people as well. In fact, many of these types of people think I just "mean well" but don't tell the whole truth. Fact is, Jesus taught people all sides of the Gospel with love and was silent when he knew people didn't want to hear it. This is the approach I try to strive for.I probably would be on your side on this one as well. Thanks for clearing this up for me. I might be a wierdo and abnormal, but its not because I am a bible believing christian :-)P.S. my last two articles didn't talk about God at all. ((Smiles))You are NOT a weirdo and your NOT abnormal.Your a GREAT person. Enough said that covers it all :-)
You are definitely welcome to your opinion. Opinions are the ideas I hold. Convictions are the ideas that holds me. I definitely believe in a God that is active in my life. He is here and He is not silent. Thanks for sharing your view.
Hi Gregory, you already know where I stand on the issues you mention. But friend, you preach harder and meaner than I do, on yours. You claim you cover all the bases by admitting that you don't know. That is covering NO bases. I firmly believe everyone has the right to their beliefs, but when you stand before God, don't say no one ever tried to tell you. Y9ou say that our origin couuld be anything. EXCEPT the Bible story.Keep reading and studying, you'll see one point where you are mistaken. That is when you say the Bible is inherently flawed. You are too nice of a guy to simply take the easy route and say, "I don't know".I do not preach Agnostic Theism at all.All I do is write articles about the subject and issue in general on this website, and I like discussing it with others. That's it. It's fun for me.Now, you seem to be on the Bible Thumper said because you gave me what I call a "God Threat." You basicaly implied than after I die I will be judged in front of God adn because I am an Agnostic Theist, I will be in hell.Also, my viewpoint does cover all bases.As an agnostic theist, I believe the odds of anything out there are the same as anything else you can think off. This includes all versions of the Bible story, literal or not. The only thing I'm not covering is atheism, but in a way I believe that atheism could be true as wel. Agnostic means "without knowledge" but I lead toward believing so I'm an Agnostic theist. I just think it could be anything or nothing.Hi again Gregory,Don't be mad at me. I don't consider myself a Bible Thumper, but I believe it is the words of God with all my heart. And it plainly, very plainly,says that anyone who does not believe that Jesus Christ was/is the Son of God, will not be saved. So, what am I to do? Say well I don't believe that part? You have the right to disbelieve it, I have the right to believe it...and to express it.I am never mad at you and respect your opinions and love how we are both friends yet consistantly debate at the same time. It's awesome!
Gregory,All I can type at this moment is: WOW. Such a very opinionated, but yet interesting write. Thanks for sharing it with us.
"In Agnostic Theism, first, I make no claim as to what the higher power is. It could literally be anything. The fact that it could be anything literally makes my viewpoint correct because I inherently have all bases covered. "It doesn't literally make your viewpoint correct because your viewpoint is based on the assumption that a higher power exists. No such power has been demonstrated to exist (and if it was, you'd no longer be agnostic about what it was) :)Always a pleasure to read your articles though, you have an interesting view point, and one that is quite different to that of the majority here.I think your viewpoint is quite close to my own in many ways, although I'm an atheist (technically an agnostic atheist) with a slight (and rationally unjustified) sympathy for deism.My main objection to the notion of the Bible being the source of our morality is that much of what it contains, especially in the Old Testament, is morally objectionable by modern standards. While the Bible certainly contains some admirable moral wisdom (most of which is also available elsewhere, such as in classical Greek philosophy) it contains a lot of sickening behaviour that appears to have been endorsed or even ordered by God.My other objection to taking the Bible as the primary source of morality is the fact that atheists aren't more evil - statistically they are not more likely to go round raping, stealing and murdering than non-atheists. If we had to take our morals from the Bible, we'd expect atheists to be extremely immoral, and by and large they aren't.As to your last argument, I think there's good rational evidence for children to believe in Santa: TV appearances, personal appearances in malls, presents appearing overnight, brandy and mince pies left out for him disappear etc. A child who has seen all this will rationally conclude Santa is real.In fact the evidence is fairly convincing - if the Santa hypothesis is wrong then the only other explanation that would fit the evidence would be a world-wide conspiracy of adults deliberately setting out to deceive :)Ok, so that case is one of the few where the conspiracy theory explanation is actually right. For almost everything else, when people start talking of world-wide conspiracies they are doing so because the evidence doesn't fit their point of view!
Gregory,Your passion is admirable. Seems to me you missed the boat on your title. Like it or not my friend, if you travel this great country and meet the truly wonderful various groups of people populating all the states, you will discover that most consider themselves Christians. And, in the world of statistics, I think that means that if the majority are Christian, then the majority are normal. Whether they are Bible-thumping or not, is not the issue. What bothers you more than anything is that they believe that Jesus Christ is their savior and they try (& often fail) to live their lives according to His words. And you have difficulty with that belief.Keep at it Gregory -- we love reading your articles!Nancy
Gregory using your quote - "The fact that it could be anything literally makes my viewpoint correct because I inherently have all bases covered. " Well you can't make that statement at all because you have out of hand rejected Christ. No matter what you profess if you do not claim Him you are an anti Christ. It is that simple to we who believe. Now if you are right, no problem, but and that but is significant, if we who believe in Christ are right, which of course we stand on, then you have a much bigger problem then you have thought about. It is simply speaking no more then reality for all, free choice. The line in the sand. Now the proofs are written in the sands of history and are there to be found by those who seek. Some of the greatest minds came to this conclusion and I do mean greatest. Anyway I wish you well in your search.
GregI know where you are coming from and I agree............BUTThe question has to be asked.........why are you trying to convert people to atheism or who are you trying to convince....or perhaps you're just a tad annoyed by religion. I get this way at times myself so I can relate.BUTWhile I know in some cases religion can hurt others and it seems very scary when people say things that make little sense, if it's harmless to you or I, why not let them have their belief?My personal stance is, I believe in a God but am not religious and my God doesn't have a big white fluffy beard, drive a Harley and he may not be omnipotent. In fact he's most likely not. When people try to convince me there's no God (in real life not in cyber space) I let them have their say but remain unchanged.I do not ever try to convert them as my belief is for me, it's personal and if I do want to believe my teddy bear can talk and walk when I leave the room, then I'll believe that too ;) (yes I do have a teddy bear)We do believe in so much that we cannot really know exists. For example, we could be sharing a reality or each of us could be experiencing our own unique reality. The only real truth is that 2+ 2 = 4 and that will never change.
I recognise belief for what is. I let people have theirs and I let me have mine...to a point.
The point being reached when I am told I will be frying in hell for not believing Jesus is the son of God as the joy they take imagining me having all my skin painfully singed off is not very nice and as such kind of anti any 'nice' message that any 'nice' man might have been trying to teach them.
But such is life and as the nice man advised I try to 'turn the other cheek'.
ps. am I normal for not being a Bible thumper or not normal for still believing in a God all be it not one who fronts a fan club?Creative Blogger,I am not trying to convert people to atheism. Actually, I subscribe to Agnostic Theism, and even then I don't try to convert people to that school of thought. I just like writing my thoughts and opinions on this issue on this website and discuss it with people. Thats all.And your not a Bible Thumper. As long as you don't spend your days introducing yourself to strangers and telling them they will burn in hell unless they believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, than your not a Bible thumper.lol, I know I'm not a Bible thumper Greg, I've never read it! I am not Christian and don't believe in religion. :)
I was asking though if my believing in a God in whatever form makes me 'normal' in your eyes.
As that 'abnormal' suggestion re your title is just as offensive as extreme Christians telling people they'll burn in hell. Thus not much difference betwixt the two ....do you see?
Live and let live (unless one is harming the other).I don't see anything wrong with the title. You are simply misinterpreting it.Heres what I mean by the title.First, lets define Bible Thumper.A Bible Thumper is a person that, among other things, goes to individual people, try to get that person to go to Church this Sunday, have a little talk about religion, and than saying that if you don't except Jesus Christ and the Bible you will burn in hell.A Bible Thumper is a person that does and says these things, but not only to individual people. At Carnivals and gathering where there are multiple stages and people choose which stage to view, Bible Thumpers may rent this stage and get a crowd going and basically they tell people that they have to accept Jesus Christ, believe in the Bible or they will burn in hell.A Bible Thumper is a very religious person who is very outspoken and tells as much people as possible in any way thats possible that they must not just believe but "accept" Jesus Christ and accept that the Bible and everything in it is literally true and if they dont do thse things they will burn in hell.So my title is, "Lets Play Normal People Vs Bible Thumper"The section that most likely you think is off or offending is Normal people Vs Bible ThumperIt should be self-evident that in this context, there are two groups of people; Bible Thumpers, and everybody else.A bible thumper is what I described above in this comment.If a person simply believes in God, they are not a bible thumper.So the title basically means Bible Thumper as one group, and everybody else as another.Hi CB, how are you doing?I come in peace :-)I just wanted to comment on your comment that Christians get joy out of picturing your skin singing off in the flames. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is out of the belief that hell is real and the love for people and not wanting anyone to go there that cause Christians to want to share this part of the teaching of the Bible as we believe it to be the true word of the Creator God.It would be likened to you warning your child not to put his hands in the fire because he will get burned. You main goal is not to scare him into not touching the fire, but rather warning him out of love because you truly believe the fire will burn him. Secondary is the fact that it will put some fear into your son and that is what will motivate him not to touch because he trusts that you have his best interest at heart.It may sound harsh and mean, but love is the motivating factor. God warned us through Jesus Christ, so we just pass it along. But hell is not the whole message of the gospel.Anyway, just wanted to clear this up.Peace,TeresaHi Teresa
This makes sense, but what makes less sense is that those Bible words are taken so literally when most likely they are metaphoric. People do burn and have been burned alive here on Earth so need for destination 'hell'. Things couldn't be any worse for some alive today. Also there are some (not all) who do use the threat of burning in hell as a 'threat' ...a smug smile usually follows the 'oh well you'll burn in hell'.
'The Kingdom of God is inside you', Jesus said? Meaning not up in the sky or down under but inside you ie what you hold in your heart.
This I believe.Hi CB, glad it helped some. Unfortunately you are right, there are some who are smug, and in that, I would question their heart, because that does not represent the heart of God.The Bible is complex in that some things are metophorical and some are literal, as far as hell, Jesus refers to it as complete and utter separation from God. We are told that death and Hades, (which is were non-believers dwell) will be cast into the lake of fire at final judgement) Jesus calls this the second death.I think the key is total separation from a Holy and Just God because of our unforgiven sin. Whether hell is metophorical or literal. I happen to take it seriously because Jesus taught and spoke on hell more than he did heaven. This alone, makes me think its probably a pretty big deal. But he never told anyone they are going to hell if they don't believe, what he did say is that if you do not believe that He is God in the flesh, we will die in our sin. Again, a difference between teaching and condemning. To me teaching gives someone something to choose from. but condemning puts people on the defensive and accomplishes nothing.Yes, Jesus said the kingdom of God in within but he also taught about a final place of fellowship for those who follow Him. He said, "I go to prepare a place for you that where I am there you may be also", this is one of the many passages that speak of his return for those who follow him.I think the biggest thing some Christians fail to communicate is that is is not the "Christian religion" that teaches this, but rather, it is God's word in the Bible, and some who choose to receive its message as truth, confirm there thinking to it and because we follow Christ and the teaching of the bible, this makes us a Christian. I personally have never told anyone they are going to hell, I could never bring myself to say that for two reasons; one that is making a final judgement on a person so that initself is wrong, and two, God already knows, since before the beginning of time who will choose him and who will not. Those he knows would at some point, already have their names written in the book of Life. For example, with me, I didn't become a Christian until I was 20 years old. Many people told me I was going to hell before I accepted Christ, Obviously, the couldn't see the future could they... Anyway, I am with you when it comes to being angry at these kinds of people. I think we can teach the doctrine of hell without trying to use it as a primary tool to save someones soul.OOPS! I didn't mean to get carried away, forgive me--sometimes I get too excited for my own good. :-) PS I think most people here on SW know I can talk to much :-)Thanks Teresa :)
Hey Gregory, you Thumper, You!!! Just kidding. I am a big fan of science and the more I study it the more I believe in God, as you might say, a "Young Earth Creationist."I am not a big fan of religion. But, in my eyes, this universe is too complicated to be an accident.Take Care, God Bless You, and Keep Writing!!!Believing in God is one thing....believing that the universe is less than 10,000 years is another...Do you really believe the universe is unnder 10,000 years old?Greg re this agnostic theism, by your definition that would be me also, however that is not the definition of agnosticism. Agnostics simply do not believe one way or the other and remain open minded where as you have stated you believe in a higher power but don't believe that higher power to be a deity.
This is not agnosticism it's something else , perhaps you support panspermia theory - that the seeds of life originated else where? I quite like this and feel it's the most likely given our planet is not capable and probably never was of spontaneously producing life.No there is Agnostic Theism. Go to Wikipedia and type it in.This is from wikipedia.Agnostic theism, also known as Spiritual Agnosticism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. Per theism, an agnostic theist believes that the proposition at least one deity exists is true, but, per agnosticism, believes that the existence of gods are unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the god(s) they believe in.Then I guess I must be agnostic theist too, a label at last. Not that I need or desire one of those.
Still, each to their own.
Interesting debate ;)Do you believe it's millions or billions of years old? I watched a show a few days ago that had scientists trying to calculate the number of galaxies in the universe. They may have degrees out the wazoo but they're guessing.
Great article--the arguments here are really with it and make me think about what to do the next time someone like this approaches me.jen
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